Frances Leach

September 28, 2016 by Alex Chapin
section: Interviews

Ms. Frances Leach was born in Mecklenburg County, North Carolina. She lived briefly in Brooklyn but her family moved to the neighborhood of Cherry, where she lived until the 1970s. She attended Second Ward High School and belonged to the House of Prayer congregation. She became a member in 1935. In the interview, Ms. Leach speaks of the House of Prayer, giving her memories of church groups, the House of Prayer convocation exercises, and the feelings she had at the removal of the church from Brooklyn. She gives brief recollections of Blue Heaven, African American and white-owned businesses, and the differences between Cherry and Brooklyn.

Tape Log

Tape Log: Oral History Interview with Frances Leach

Interviewed by Brian K. Alexander

Time Description of Interview Contents
0.17 Introduction by Brian Alexander
0.43 Ms. Leach introduces herself.
3.11 Question: What are your fondest and earliest memories of Brooklyn? She mentioned going to the Lincoln and Savoy Theatres as well as the House of Prayer Church, which she joined in 1935.
4.17 Question: Describe the differences between Cherry, where you lived and Brooklyn, if you can? She says Cherry was a better area to live in than Brooklyn because it had houses as opposed to apartments. Brooklyn was also more congested.
4.53 Question: How would you describe the connection between the two communities, if there was one?
6.00 Question: What other businesses did you go to in Brooklyn while you lived in Brooklyn? She describes some of the businesses in Brooklyn and who owned them and where they were located. She speaks of walking to Brooklyn from Cherry. She says that there were not buses they could take, although she contends that whites did have buses.
7.30 Question: Since you did not live in Brooklyn, tell me what other sorts of things you may have done in Brooklyn?
7.55 Question: Did you have relatives or friends that lived in Brooklyn? She remembers that she lived in Brooklyn for a little while with her mother, father, sisters, and brothers. Previously, she said she had only lived in Cherry. She says that her family moved into a duplex in Brooklyn from the country and moved to Cherry into a better house later.
9.58 Question: You mentioned some of the African American businesses. Can you describe the differences between the white-owned and black-owned businesses? She believes that there were no differences between black-owned and white-owned businesses in Brooklyn. In choosing, her family was interested in the best quality service.
10.43 Question: Describe Second Ward High School where you attended school. She says the school went to the eleventh grade when she graduated in 1939. She also says that the school did not graduate a class in 1940
12.21 Question: Tell me your favorite memory from your time at Second Ward High School.
14.17 Question: I know you attended the House of Prayer located in Brooklyn. Do you remember why you or your family chose to attend this church? She gives a description of the House of Prayer. She tells of the structure as well as the doctrine of the church.
15.28 Question: The House of Prayer stood in two locations in Brooklyn – on Long Street and McDowall Street. Can you describe the two areas where the church buildings were and include neighbors or businesses or whatever you may be able to remember? She describes the differences between the two churches. The first church on Long Street had sawdust floors and hard pews. It was located near the slums. The new location was better and the building had pews with backs, real floors, and a better atmosphere.
17.23 Question: Can you describe what the area of Blue Heaven was like?
18.05 Question: How did the House of Prayer interact with the Brooklyn community? The House of Prayer gave out food to the community in a soup line. It also helped the neighborhood keep down on crime.
19.13 Question: I was told that the House of Prayer actually had a security force that acted as the police before Brooklyn got police. Do you remember that? She talks about the Grace soldiers, which helped keep crime and violence down in the community. The House of Prayer was seen by many in the community as a security force, but was ignored by others.
20.13 Question: How was the House of Prayer different than the other churches in Brooklyn? The House of Prayer had a children’s band. She also mentioned convocation. I asked follow-up questions about convocation. She explained the process and the parade. She read the House of Prayer Creed from a book she retrieved during the interview. The parade was to introduce the House of Prayer to the community. The parade consisted of bands, groups within the church, and the leaders.
24.19 Question: Can you tell me some of your earliest memories of your church in Brooklyn?
24.57 Question: Tell me some of the groups or individuals within the church that were important to you. She mentioned the Ushers’ Board and the Nurses’ Board as well as the choir.
26.35 Question: The House of Prayer moved from Brooklyn in the late 1960s. Why did you choose to follow the church to Beatties Ford Road instead of going to another church? She said the church moved first and then she moved to the Beatties Ford Road area because she liked the area.
27.53 Question: When the church body learned it had to leave Brooklyn and the church would be torn down, what sorts of things did the church do in response? “We felt like we should have stayed over there so we could have [long pause] something to remind of us, of us, you know, from where we came from down in that area. We was hoping we could have something. We would hope, we could have just stayed there, you know, to have some remembrance. But it didn’t happen. . . . We had to go.”
29.26 Question: How did you feel about the destruction of the church in Brooklyn? “ I hated to leave there. After all, that’s where we grew up. We just hated to leave.”
29.58 Question: After the move, what were some of the changes the congregation faced? She mentioned the problems with transportation. One had to have a car in order to get to the new church on Beatties Ford Road. She took family members in her car to the new church. She said despite the transportation issues, most of the church stayed together and went to the new church.
31.26 Question: What opinion did the church leaders, the pastors, the ministers, how did they, how did they feel about urban renewal and the removal of the church? She was unsure how they felt about the issue.
32.01 Question: Looking back, what things do you miss about the old church in Brooklyn? “I don’t know, I guess because we grew up over there we just kind of felt like that was home, you know? And we hated to leave, we just hated to leave. But we had to go.”
32.34 Question: What aspects of the new church do you see as better than the church in Brooklyn?
33.20 Question: Having lived in Cherry, can you tell me what the response was from the community there to the demolition of Brooklyn which was so close to you physically and spiritually? She had a hard time understanding the question, even rewording it several times. I had to ask leading questions, which prompted a response.
35.55 Question: Describe to me what Brooklyn means to you today. She says that the only thing that is there now is business and that it is hard to even imagine where things once were. She believes it is sad that she can no longer remember how it was when she sees that area. She remembers the good times they had there.
36.41 Question: When you hear the term urban renewal, what does that mean to you now? “I guess it mean they’re trying to do better, make it better in these places.”
36.58 Question: Do you think that’s what happened in Brooklyn? She says she believes that it was a good decision.
37.14 Question: Considering all that you know now, was the decision to revitalize Brooklyn, in the way it was done, a good one or a bad one and why do you think that? “I, I, I don’t think they should taken, should have taken all the black stuff out of there like they did. I will say that much, you know cause [pause] then it leaves us nothing hardly to, where we can go back and say where we used to do this, you know, cause it’s all cleaned out, can’t tell where those places were.” She goes on to say she does not think it was a good decision. She says she could not understand why their new church was torn down and then replaced by a white church just behind where the House of Prayer stood (She asked that a portion of this commentary be blacked out).
39.35 Question: Participating in an oral history class, we are interested in the interaction between interviewer and interviewee. Can you tell me if the fact that I’m a man, or the fact that I’m white, or if the fact that I’m with an university, if that has any fact on the answers that you give to me?
41.55 Thanks and end of interview

Transcript

Frances Leach