Christine Bowser
Christine Bowser was born in South Carolina in Winsboro 1934. Ms. Bowser moved to Charlotte at a young age and settled down in the First Ward neighborhood. She attended Second Ward High School and was a member of several organizations there, such as the band and Y-youth. She later graduated from North Carolina Central with a B.A. in Physical Education. She returned to Charlotte in 1960 and became the Program Director for the Phyllis Wheatley YWCA in the neighborhood of Brooklyn. In 1964 the YWCA was closed and she began to work for the Charlotte-Mecklenburg School System as a Physical Education teacher.
Tape Log
Tape Log: Oral History Interview with Christine Bowser
Interviewed by Nick Gallardo
Time | Description of Interview Contents |
---|---|
:00 | Beginning of Interview |
:10 | Background information, links to neighborhood of Brooklyn |
1:47 | Second Ward High, change from rural to city school.Band membership, Queen City Classic.Y Teen Club, various after school activities |
6:02 | Bishop Daddy Grace’s Parade, Easter |
7:30 | St. Paul Baptist Church. Relocation, Sunday school and other activities, interactions with other churches. Mention of churches/Brooklyn as focal point for African American community |
9:30 | List of memorable figures, i.e. Allegra Westbrook, |
11:06 | Brevard St. Library.Transfer to Main Library |
12:31 | More memorable figures, i.e. Alexander family, funeral homes; Alexander and Grier |
13:57 | Places in Brooklyn |
14:12 | Pause in recording |
14:15 | Night clubs, Bethlehem Center |
16:30 | Locations of business area, |
17:45 | Residential neighborhoods, rental homes, houses located on creeks |
19:40 | Relationships between families and community |
20:48 | Police, crime topics |
22:53 | YWCA, classes offered, interactions with members of community |
24:28 | YWCA and YMCA relationships, process of integration, Phylis Wheatly name |
27:07 | Relocation, University Park, members of redevelopment committee, compensation for properties |
29:44 | Comments on “Good housing in good neighborhoods”, First Ward involvement in relocation |
33:40 | YWCA and urban renewal, church presence in Brooklyn |
34:19 | First awareness of urban renewal, thoughts on redevelopment and progress |
36:48 | Last view of Brooklyn |
37:40 | Reasoning behind urban renewal in Brooklyn, “slum clearance” |
38:58 | Outlook on forces in charge of urban renewal, government |
39:49 | Lessons of Urban Renewal, Legacy of Brooklyn |
41:06 | Closing remarks |
Transcript
Christine Bowser
Interviewed at the residence of Ms. Bowser in Charlotte, North Carolina
April 13, 2007
Interviewer: Gallardo, Nick
Transcription completed: May 23, 2007
Transcriber: Jennifer Payne
Editor: Karen Flint
Title: Interview with Christine Roseboro Bowser
Keywords [subject]: Brooklyn, YWCA, YMCA, Second Ward High School, bands, Christmas Parade, Queen City Classic, celebrations, extracurricular activities, churches, Brevard Street Library, funeral homes, nightclubs, businesses, Bethlehem Center, housing, recreation, policing, urban renewal, relocation.
Description [abstract]: Ms. Christine Roseboro Bowser was born in South Carolina in Winsborro 1934. Ms. Bowser moved to Charlotte at a young age and settled down in the First Ward neighborhood. She attended Second Ward High School and was a member of several organizations there, such as the band and Y-youth. She later graduated from North Carolina Central with a B.A. in Physical Education. She returned to Charlotte in 1960 and became the Program Director for the Phyllis Wheatley YWCA in the neighborhood of Brooklyn. In 1964 the YWCA was closed and she began to work for the Charlotte-Mecklenburg School System as a Physical Education teacher.
Contributor: Christine Roseboro Bowser
Interview Date: April 13, 2007
Format: WAV (43 minutes, 18 seconds)
Identifier: [file number]
Coverage: Brooklyn, Charlotte, North Carolina, 1940s-1960s.
Interviewer: Nick Gallardo
Recorder (if different than interviewer): Nick Gallardo
Transcriber: Jennifer Payne
Participant description:
Age: 73
Birth date: 1934
Birth location: Winsboro, South Carolina
Residence: Charlotte, North Carolina
Education: Second Ward High School, BA from North Carolina Central University
Occupation(s): Educator
Setting Description: The residence of Ms. Bowser in Charlotte, North Carolina
NG: Nick Gallardo
CB: Christine Roseboro Bowser
NG: OK. Today is April 13, and this is an interview with Ms. Christine Roseboro Bowser, and this is conducted under the auspices of Dr. Karen Flint’s Oral History class of the University of North Carolina- Charlotte. And this is being held in Ms. Bowser’s residence. My name is Nick Gallardo, and I will be moderating this interview. Good afternoon, Ms. Bowser. How are you?
CB: Great. How are you today?
NG: Oh, I’m doing fine, thank you.
CB: Good.
NG: I guess we just want to start out with some open-ended questions.
CB: OK.
NG: Like, what are your fondest memories of the old neighborhood of Brooklyn?
CB: The fondest memories, I believe, that it was a very close neighborhood. We had people, homeowners and those that were not homeowners, living side by side. And they were all kind and friendly to each other. You really didn’t see much of a class system. Everybody was kind of accepted.
NG: Oh.
CB: So, I really enjoyed that part of it.
BG: OK. So, it was like a real sense of community?
CB: It was a real sense of community.
NG: And what are your connections with the old, with the neighborhood of Brooklyn?
CB: My connections were, one, I went to high school there, which was enjoyable. I went to church there, the library was there, so if we needed to do any after-school studying we went to the library. The recreation part, we had the YWCA, and we also had the YMCA. And one other group, I can’t even recall the name of it now, but, so, we would- recreation, religion, and school, so forth.
NG: Well, I guess, starting with your experience- oh, let me see, starting with your experiences at Second Ward, what was that like, going to school there?
CB: Second Ward was really wonderful. And the reason why I said it was wonderful in most aspects- I moved to Charlotte in the sixth grade, and we had left a very rural place where we didn’t see anybody. We were two miles from everybody, and we had to collect our wood and make our fires for the school, and the teachers were kind of absent – the teacher was absent ‘cause she was an alcoholic, so we didn’t have much of school.
NG: Oh.
CB: So, when we came to Charlotte, we, it was so different. We didn’t have to make fire, we had separate classes for all the students, first, second, and third and so forth. So, when I went to Second Ward, we saw all of the, there were all of these students, whereas I had been accustomed to, in the South, just having maybe, twenty-five students, and they were first through whatever classes we had, seventh. So going to Second Ward, where we had all of these students and all of these classes and activities going on as well as band, and the relationship with all these students was just great. So we enjoyed that.
NG: You were talking about the band, and you were a member of the band, correct?
CB: I was a member of the band, yes. And I was one of the first in my family to play in the band, and my chosen instrument was the flute. Thereafter me, my sister played flute, my niece played flute, and also my daughter played flute. So I say I kind of just opened it up for it, I held the flute….
NG: You set the precedent, huh?
CB….I wasn’t a great flute play, flutist, but I enjoyed being in the band, and I was a letter girl. And we had a chance to travel with the band, and we went places where the football teams to play, team to play. We traveled and we participated in the Christmas Parade and the Queen City Classic, so it was really, it’s like….
NG: The Christmas Parade, was that for the city?
CB: Yeah, that was for the city….
NG: Oh, OK.
CB: …we had it, during, it wasn’t at Christmas, it was right before Christmas when it was at. Like, on the- but it was a Christmas Parade, it was considered a Christmas Parade with other bands.
NG: Oh, OK. And the Queen City Classic, that was a big event for….
CB: That was a very big event. We played mostly West Charlotte, so we had a chance to go on the field and perform that time we had an exciting band teacher. His name was Page, Augustus Page. We thought we were real good. We didn’t have band uniforms, but we wore, maybe a white shirt and maybe some dark pants or something to perform. So the band was really a good organization to belong to.
NG: Were you involved in any other extracurricular activities at Second Ward?
CB: Yes, were had the Y Team club there, I was part of. The library, we had people that worked in the library, the assistants in the library, I did that, and I also worked in the office, assisting whatever was necessary to be done.
NG: And the Y Team, that was affiliated with the….
CB: That, that was affiliated with the Phyllis Wheatley YWCA, at that time it was the Phyllis Wheatley YWCA, and we had great activities after school . We would have clubs. One of my favorite things was that we had a teacher by the name of Mrs. Byers. And she taught us sewing, party manners, good manners, how to sit, set the table and how to eat properly. And then, we had teen night, where we would go and do various activities such as dancing, so you got a chance to dance with all of the boys from different parts of town. [laughs] You see, everybody came from all parts of town to the Y because it was located in Brooklyn. So, then we went on hay rides, it was pretty exciting.
NG: Wow. You’re talking about Christmas, I guess I have, I know that there’s a lot of activities that went on in the neighborhood of Brooklyn. Daddy Grace’s parade was a big event, from what I understand, right?
CB: His parade was very big and there were band from various House of Prayers from different parts of the Carolinas that would come and perform, and I guess they, we thought they had one of the best bands because they had good letter girls and the band did all kinds of stunts and activities. So we would follow them and march with them, so they did have a good band, which drew a lot of people to their events.
NG: Were there any kind of, other kind of holidays that were celebrated in Brooklyn that were like, like, well, how was, how was Halloween or Easter, or…
CB: The only thing about- we did our, have Halloween, so we just dressed and knocked on different people’s doors and got trick-or-treat with that. That was kind of low key, but we did do that. Easter was exciting because that was the time we got a chance to dress up. Everybody would dress up, buy something for Easter and go to church. So, it was a big event as far as dressing up, putting on your hats and putting on shoes that were too small for you, but you wore them anyway [laughs], you wore them anyway, but it was exciting. So, that was a big event, Easter.
NG: And, I take it you went to your church. And you went to the….
CB: I went to St. Paul Baptist Church. When I first started attending it it was at First and Crockett Street, First Street and Crockett. And then they relocated to McDowell, which now is occupied by Adam’s Mark. So we built a very nice church there, moving from the First Street Crockett area to, which was a, less than a half block away to McDowell. And with redevelopment, I think they went to North Charlotte.
NG: And what, what was the, what was the church like and the…
CB: The church- I enjoyed, I really enjoyed the Sunday school, and we had something called BTU, where we did religious training, and we went to different churches to, for this BTU, because all of the churches had BTU. So we would have kind of a convention where we would get together. I enjoyed the choir, although I couldn’t sing [laughs], I was in the choir, that was one of the things that liked to do. We also had girl scouts, we participated in that. And the church choir was, it was very good, it was a little different. It was, they could sing very well, they were kind of loud and did a lot of shouting [laughs]. I wasn’t into the church as much as I was into the activities, the Sunday school and so forth.
NG: And how, how did you guys interact with the other churches in the area?
CB: Oh, well, we had, when they had what they call their- what did they call it? Their- loss for words- their, when they would have different ministers to come into the church- revivals, what I was trying to get. We participated in that. Our choir would go and sing for their revival. And we would attend their church to listen to the various ministers that they had. And they would also do the same thing for us, so we knew quite a few people in Charlotte. But, I would say, the churches were, you know, people all over- in fact, Brooklyn was the center of activities for the black communities in Charlotte. So all of the other communities would come into the churches and into Brooklyn, as I said, for the library, for the YWCA, the YMCA, and the clubs we had and the pharmacy, all of that. So it kind of drew people into the center, as well as the churches.
NG: Can you remember any memorable figures in the community of Brooklyn, by chance? Any people that stick out in your mind that were…
CB: I would say, Miss Allegra Westbrooks, which was the librarian. Mrs. Belton, that was in charge of the YWCA. Miss Craft was a Y Team director. My principal, Mr. Grigsby, and many of the teachers that were there. My minister, Reverend Wards, I think. And we had the Alexanders, which were political leaders, you know, so.
NG: I guess, talking about, you mentioned Miss Allegra Westbrooks, talking about- what was the Brevard Street Library? What did, was that a focal point for the community?
CB: That was a focal point for the entire community of the black neighborhoods because that was the only library we had for black people, so people would come from all different areas of Charlotte to attend that library, they wanted to do some additional reading, or be involved in the activities that they had there at the library. So it was a great place to be. And they had leadership development classes that Miss Westbrooks was before her time, she was very innovative.
NG: And, I guess, what was it like when it eventually, it, like, when it eventually had to close down, was that, was it hard to transfer from there to, ‘cause then the main library was being built, correct?
CB: Yes, it was hard to transfer from there, although, when we did attend the main library it was, was exciting, because we had so much more, whereas in the library down in Brevard Street we more or less had had pass-me-down books. But when we went to the main library we had books, new books, and new areas, and it was great. So the change was great. We hated leaving, but after getting involved it was, it was OK.
NG: And, you mentioned Mr. Alexander, who owned the Alexander Funeral Home.
CB: Right.
NG: I guess, I guess this is actually more of a personal question, but I interviewed Dr. Lem Long, and he was talking about ambulance services that he had. And Alexander Funeral Homes had the same, they were in the same service.
CB: Right…
NG: Were, I guess, I’m trying to figure out the, or, I’m wondering the reason, did they- or not the reasoning but, you get- how did that work, like, what was that? Or do you know a lot about….
CB: I know, well, didn’t anyone want to die you know [laughs]. We didn’t want to go to the-but, we had Griers, which was right in front of Second Ward. It was a very nice funeral home. And then we had the Alexanders. I guess, I think Mr. Grier was one of the first peoples to try to run fro city council or something like that. Alexander was a more of a political person, with NAACP, and trying to make changes for black people, so he kind of stood out a little more than the others did.
NG: Are there any particular sections of Brooklyn that stood out for you, like building- places where you hung out..[laughs]
CB: Places really, where we hung out was the YWCA, the library, and we occasionally slipped to some little night clubs [laughs] [phone rings] that had jazz, and they had jazz [phone rings] they had little restaurants, and they had…
NG: All right, hold on [pause recording]. Sorry about the pause there. So you were talking about the nightclubs.
CB: The night club. It was called, the one we really liked, it was called The Birdland. You could get something to eat there, you could dance, and also they had great jazz. The best players from the high school bands, West Charlotte and Second Ward and Plato Price and other places, even the House of Prayer, were part of the jazz band, so you had a chance to dance with the different people and meet people from all over the city of Charlotte. So that was exciting. The Bethlehem Center was a good place. It was located in Brooklyn, too. [noise from the phone off the receiver] It was also located in Brooklyn. And they had various classes on dance that we could learn to do there, for modern dancing, square dancing, and all kinds of dancing. And we had, again, we learned how to cook. We had cooking classes. They had a, just, a time for us to play checkers and do other recreational activities. We also played volleyball and we had games and things like that. So that was exciting. And one of my other favorite places was a little ice cream parlor on, on McDowell Street. This couple ran it, the Torrances ran it, and it was exciting for us to go there, mostly on Sundays, and after school. They had all kinds of ice cream. I mean, they were ahead of their time, too. So we, and I, that’s where I could get my big scoops of strawberry ice cream. And after church, people would go there and get ice cream, and after games, and so forth. So that was a good place to hang out. Although we would just go in and get the ice cream. It wasn’t a sit-down place, you’d just get the ice cream and leave. So those were some of the nice places we liked to do, things we liked to do.
NG: And, were these, were these, these were, the places you’re talking about, were they like, a particular section of Brooklyn?
CB: They were…
NG: Were they all located in a specific area?
CB: The location was kind of center city. I talked about the YWCA and the YMCA. They were all located on Second Street. The Bethlehem Center was there, too. And all of the, most of the doctor’s offices and the law building, the law office, and what else? There were some restaurants, too. It was kind of the center of attraction for the blacks.
NG: I guess I should ask this question ‘cause I’m, was there like, was there other parts of Brooklyn that were, ‘cause, was there like a particular section that was business or residential?
CB: The part that I just spoke of, the Second Street, Brevard Street, that little cross-section, that was were most of the business were, and the funeral homes, all of those was kind of in a little cluster, not too far apart.
NG: I guess, what was the, what was the rest of Brooklyn like, the areas of, like, the residential, the rental units, what was that? Did you even…
CB: Well..
NG: Did you go too much into those areas?
CB: I kind of moved around, ‘cause I had friends, and walking around. That was our recreation on Sundays was to kind of visit and talk in the street, and we walked down to the park or something like that. We had the Pearl Street Park, and we would go there. And we would also go uptown and do some window shopping. But in the neighborhood, as far as the homes, the rental homes were more or less, little single shack homes. I don’t have a good description of them, but there were, like a mix of rental, residential, I mean, I mean, business and homeowners. But there wasn’t a difference. They- everybody was treated practically as equal. I’m sure that there were people that were on the welfare, but you never knew it. Everybody kept their yards pretty clean. They had flowers in the yard, and a lot of pride in the neighborhood. Although the houses were, I’ll have to admit, pretty shabby, some of them, and especially, I don’t know why the rental people liked to build houses over the creek. There were some creeks there, tributaries, and Sugar Creek, well, Sugar Creek, I lived right on Sugar Creek, and there was one other creek, I’ll think of the name soon. But they liked to build houses right on the edge of the, the creeks and the tributaries. So we often, where I lived, I always said that, we were affluent, because we had waterfront property [laughs]. And when it would rain the water would run from overflow from Sugar Creek up to our backyard, backdoor, and we would have to go to the front door.
NG: That’s right, and you were in First Ward, right?
CB: I was in First Ward, but the same thing happened….
NG: I…
CB: …more so in Brooklyn….
NG: More so?
CB:…than it did in First Ward. There were many places that were- but the the, the neighbor- the people were very friendly. There were a lot of families that had the fathers and the mothers in the home, homes. And there were a lot of single parents, with the absentee father, and the extended families with the grandparents, would take care of the kids, but it was, it’s a little different from what it was now. Everybody kind of looked out after each other. If you got in trouble, they were able to correct you, your neighbors were able to correct you. Of course, when you got home, you got another scolding. So, it was a different place from now, you can’t correct anyone if they do anything, you better call the police or let them alone [laughs].
NG: Oh, OK. Oh, well, I was talking about the police, so, are you, so the community are you saying was more self-policed? What was, what was the, how were the police viewed in the neighborhood?
CB: How were the police viewed? We had, mostly there were white policemen. We had a few black, Ross, maybe two or three, when I was a youngster. And the black policemen more or less just checked on the blacks. They were not able to do any arresting of the whites. And the white policemen had the, the range of everybody. In general, the, I would say, I had a couple of bad experiences, like, when we were walking home or something, they might drive up and flash that light on you and you had on a dress, so it just went right through you, yeah….[laughs]
NG: Oh, are we talking about the white police?
CB: The yard policemen. And then, some of them, some of the blacks, they could be kind of cruel, too. But it wasn’t any perfect, perfect [laughs].
NG: Was it, was it because, I heard in some of the other interviews, they take about how Brooklyn was an open, safe community. But other times they talk about how maybe there could have been a lot of crime in particular sections. Is that?
CB: Well, I would think so, in the, yeah. I mean, there was some meanness going on. People, there were good people, there were good teenagers, and then we had some neighborhoods where the boys especially, you just didn’t go into that territory, or you couldn’t come over into that territory. And there were some spots where they fought a lot and people would get hurt, and sometimes killed. And what they say- matter is neither created nor destroyed, [laughs]so it happened.
NG: I guess I want to talk about the, the YWCA. Because you have a lot of experience with that. You were the, you were the program director there from…
CB: For the adults, yes.
NG: For the adults from 1960 to ’64.
CB: To ’64. Yes.
NG: What was that like?
CB: That was exciting. We provided classes, we checked with the community to see which classes they wanted to have offered and we offered those classes. And one of their favorite was bridge. We had sewing, we had homemade cooking, and different types of classes like that, so. I had to more or less get the instructors for it. We had driver’s education for adults, and there were many other classes that we had, it was. So, I got to know the adults from all over Charlotte. People coming from all areas, Biddleville, University Park, it was developed then, First Ward, all over Charlotte. They came- it was kind of like a melting pot for the women to come and on Saturday nights, Miss Elizabeth Mills, which was a teenage director, youth director, she would have dances, and sometimes the adults would have, also have dances or card fun nights where they came and participated.
NG: And, I guess, what was the, I’m kind of confused, I’m not, but I’m not too familiar with the, with the MCA, organizations? What was your relationship, like, with the YMCA? Did they…
CB: The YMCA, the YMCA and the YWCA kind of worked a little different. We had McCrory’s, but they were not connected to the white YMCA, like they are now. They were kind of separate. But the YWCA they kind of looked after each other. Although we had separate buildings at first. We had the Phyllis Wheatley YWCA, which was on Brevard Street, and then they built a new building down on Davidson Street, which, for the YWCA, which was for blacks. And after about, in the early ‘60s, during the time I was there, we kind of integrated, where you could take classes over at the, the main building, which was on Trade Street, and I think they still have a facility there, and we raised money during the time that I was there, it was a big fundraiser to establish the YWCA now that is on Park Road.
NG: Oh, OK.
CB: So, we were connected. We had our staff meetings together, and some of the staff taught classes at the black branch if they had the skills, and those that had the skills would go over to the branch of the main library, the main Y on Trade Street and teach classes. So, whatever.
NG: And…
CB: ‘Cause they had the swimming pool. We didn’t have the swimming pool. So everybody that wished to take swimming would have to go over there.
NG: And the, the YWCA had a, it had a particular name attached to it correct? The Phyllis…
CB: The Phyllis Wheatley…
NG: Phyllis Wheatley.
CB: …was for blacks, yes.
NG: And was that name kept after the YWCA moved out of…
CB: Out of Brooklyn, no.
NG: …out of Brooklyn? No?
CB: They dropped it. We dropped it and that, dropped just for the YWCA. So, it was open and closed, that was the end of Phyllis Wheatley in Charlotte.
NG: I guess, what are your, what are your thoughts on that, by chance?
CB: Well, we wanted progress, we wanted integration. And I guess you can’t have your cake and eat it too[laughs]. So, it was an improvement to be able to participate with the community rather than a segment of the community. So, it was a good move.
NG: I guess, I have some, some, questions about the, the process of relocation. I know you didn’t actually live in the neighborhood of Brooklyn, you lived in First Ward…
CB: First Ward.
NG: …but where did a lot of people move to first, when they left?
CB: When they…
NG: That you know of.
CB: I believe that a lot of them just went to different neighborhoods wherever the spaces were available, like the First Ward, Billingsville, Fairview Homes, Southside, wherever facilities were available, and the, at that time, this neighborhood, University Park, was one of the first neighborhoods that was developed by Spangler for blacks. So a lot of the people left Brooklyn and bought homes here in University Park. And other parts of, I think a lot of them, too, went to, can’t think of the neighborhood right now, but many of them moved. They got money from the city, but probably perhaps not enough. I was asking one of my friends that worked for the redevelopment, and she said they were just responsible for getting people moved out of Brooklyn into other areas, but she didn’t know about the monies, or there…
NG: I guess, yeah, what does that mean, responsible for moving….
CB: That’s what I asked her just recently. Her name was Bernie, Bernie Morrison, she worked with Randall, which I think he was the director for having people located….
NG: Randall?
CB: Randall was his name. I know his last name was Randall.
NG: Oh, his last name was Randall. OK.
CB: Randall, and she worked as his secretary. And Sawyer was, I believe, he was a white guy, he was in charge of the total. I don’t know if he’s still living, but he probably could give you all the information, or if you could find someone that worked with him.
NG: I think…
CB: Sawyer was his name. And some people kind of held out from moving. I think that one of the people that held out was Diamond, Vermelle’s father, he held out for more money for his property. Eventually he had to leave, because they were coming closer. And then Mr. Blake, who was principal at West Charlotte high school held out, and he eventually had to leave and relocated in Northwood.
NG: I was looking through some of the documents from the planning commission for, Charlotte-Mecklenburg Planning Commission of 1960, and they said one of the most important goals of urban renewal was making good housing available in good neighborhoods. Was that…
CB: I’m not too sure of that. I don’t think it- it might have been a goal, but I don’t know if it happened. And I don’t know how much they provided, funds, or homes for the people other than that was already available.
NG: Was already available. OK, so there wasn’t a lot of new construction going on for…
CB: No, the only new construction that I could think of was perhaps University Park, where they, Spangler, and then there was some other neighborhoods developed.
NG: And you mentioned there was some influx into your own neighborhood, into First Ward.
CB: My, there were, if homes were available…
NG: If homes were available.
CB: But I can’t remember any new construction.
NG: Oh, OK.
CB: Unless, unless whites who lived in First Ward, maybe some of them moved out and blacks moved in. Other than, there was Piedmont Court, but I don’t think it was particularly developed for, for Brooklyn, and there was Double Oaks, but I think it was perhaps already there. So, people perhaps, moved into those places if they were available, Fairview Homes, South, Southside, and so forth.
NG: When people, did you , did you know anyone who perhaps moved, like, from- did you know anyone from Brooklyn who moved to your neighborhood, by- did you talk to people who moved from Brooklyn to First Ward?
CB: No, no.
NG: No?
CB: Well, I was kind of in an unusual situation. Where I lived there were two streets. And, one was Morrow Street and the other was B Street. And we had, not more than, eight or nine homes in that little neighborhood. So, we lived between Elizabeth Avenue and Trade Street.
NG: Oh, OK.
CB: Bound by Fourth Street. And Sugar Creek was, Sugar Creek was a natural boundary, which was near Central Piedmont College, now, it was just a block away, less than a block. So it was a small nook of Charlotte, and we didn’t have anyone moving in from those areas, and…
NG: Oh, OK.
CB: And that was after- the redevelopment came after really, after I was away. I had gone off to school and then came back in the ‘60s, that‘s really when it really started.
NG: Right.
CB: So I really don’t know.
NG: During the ‘60s, so, the- well, how was that, was the YWCA a part of that process, or how did that…
CB: The YWCA…
NG: Well, not part of the, but like….
CB: The YWCA did leave, I, perhaps it was a part of the progress, I mean, the process, because, First Baptist Church bought the YWCA property and I think removed- you know we had so many churches in Brooklyn. Someone told me there were about twenty-six churches in Brooklyn. Lord, churches. And, well, they had, I was told that the city had said that they did not want churches in the Brooklyn area. But, First Baptist bought that property and it is now there, so, it is a living witness. And most of the churches that are there, if you can look, they are gone. I think there was one right there on Brevard Street that stayed. I think it just closed its doors this year. But all of the other churches left. Because it was free to go, and the only church I can think of that is there is the First Baptist Church.
NG: I’m sorry, actually, I know this is kind of backwards, but I know that I talked about the- I asked questions about the process of relocation, but now I guess I’d like to ask some questions about the impetus for relocation, which was urban renewal. Do you remember how you first heard about the plans for urban renewal?
CB: Yes, I was at the YWCA. I was working there at the YWCA. And that’s when they talked about the, the redevelopment, and I must have been living here, I think, it’s been too long ago. But I was living here I believe, at that time, and that’s when they, or maybe I was living in Morganton really, when they really started, I hadn’t moved back to Charlotte. But I moved back in the middle of it, or at the beginning of it, of the redevelopment, you know, moving out. Because we didn’t have any intention of leaving the, the Davidson Street for the YWCA, but that was connected with the YWCA becoming one rather than as being separate, and I guess they sold property, then.
NG: I guess, what, what, what are the, I have a quick, what are like, what are your viewpoints on, like, do you see it as a way for integration or was it a…
CB: [laughs] I saw it as a way for- what the Y or what, for the city ?
NG: I guess urban redevelopment or urban renewal.
CB: Well, in order for progress, something must change. And I think that was the first step in making big changes for Charlotte to become a city, so they chose Brooklyn as the site to be moved, whereas Brooklyn was kind of, as I said, was the center for black communities, which somewhat destroyed this nucleus for the black people. And, of course, we didn’t feel too good about it. But in order for progress, something must change. And that was one of the changes.
NG: What were your last, like when did last see Brooklyn by chance, like, what was that? Do you remember? Was it, Second Ward, or the Y….
CB: The YWCA.
NG: The YWCA?
CB: The YWCA. And then I went into the school system, so it was still going on. But my greatest impact was working at the YWCA. It was some of the people that were working with redevelopment would come to the YWCA to have meetings, they had a lot of meetings there at the YWCA, the city and redevelopment people.
NG: And, this is like, from some of our research it seems like the city councilors used the claim that Brooklyn was a slum in order to….
CB: Well…
NG: Was that, do you think that was a viable…
CB: A viable reason?
NG: Yeah, a viable reason to, you know…
CB: It was, well, back then, there were not too many great places for black people. So I guess they could call the country, the United States, as creating or having a lot of slum areas for black people to live. There wasn’t anything else, you now?
NG: But, maybe, from like, from your, from your viewpoint it wasn’t…
CB: It wasn’t all slums. We had some areas that were undesirable. But we had some good areas, and we had some good things going in there, some good things going on in the community.
NG: Like the businesses on Second Streets, the YWCA…
CB: The YWCA.
NG: …the churches.
CB: The churches, and so forth. It wasn’t the best, but that’s what we had. And that was a practice over the United States, so. Still, it’s somewhat a practice right? {NG and CB laugh} Still it’s somewhat a practice.
NG: How do you think this, the urban renewal may have affected, like, the, a larger African-American community, a viewpoint towards local government, state government, national government, was there…
CB: Well, I don’t know, but I understand that there were promises of greater things for the people that were to move from the neighborhood, and I haven’t seen them, I didn’t see why it, I, I really don’t know the promises, but I understand they promised them better living conditions and living situations, but I didn’t see any of it. Not coming from the city.
NG: I know, I guess, starting to, conclusions, starting to wrap- what lessons do you think current and future generations can learn from the experiences of Brooklyn? Is there…
CB: Well, I think that we, well, from, I think the unity that the black people had. I think we had a lot of unity there, and we were able to live together, I mean, there were some problems, but we did see blacks doing different things. Being lawyers and doctors and all of that, you could see it, more so that you could see it right now. Because they were all so close together, and if the blacks wanted to participate in the recreational activity, facilities, they had to come there so they kind of knew everybody because it came from different sides of the community to be together. So there were a lot of unity that we may not have now that…
NG: So you’re saying like the location, the central location of Brooklyn itself…
CB: Yeah, the central location…
NG: ..acted as a…
CB: As kind of a nucleus for what went on in the black communities.
NG: Do you think, is there anything else that you like to add about, like, any topics that, or information that we may not have discussed so far? Any experiences that you had that are particularly memorable that you would like to….
CB: No, I, I, nothing other than I just really enjoyed participating in the activities and the involvements in Brooklyn. As I say, I came from a place where we didn’t have anything, so I just thought it was a great place to be. I have already said there were good points of Brooklyn and there were some that were not so desirable. And a couple of them I can think of- going to the movies, some of them were, I mean, you didn’t get to hear anything in the movie because the kids were acting out, and I guess they do that same thing now, certainly as you go to…
NG: Are you talking about the, yeah, the Lincoln and the Savoy…
CB: Lincoln and the Savoy. But you did see, I mean, we could see black people doing things, so we could see the role model part of it…
NG: Oh, OK.
CB:..so it was a lot of, we got to see that. And there were better things. And after they relocated from Brooklyn, I think many of the black did start buying homes, and perhaps doing a little better, I would think, in general. I don’t know if that’s what you were getting at or what.
NG: No, yeah, no, that’s, that’s, thank you. Yeah, I guess I just want to say thank you very much, Ms. Bowser, I do appreciate the, your time and the help out, and your help in this project.
CB: Well, you’re quite welcome. And I hope you can get some information, information that I gave you that…
NG: Oh…
CB: you didn’t get from others. I guess it’s kind of redundant. Most people are kind of saying mostly the same thing.
NG: Well, and there’s something to say about that too, if a lot of people remember a lot of the same things.
CB: Are remembering, so you know you’re getting the truth.
NG: Oh, yes, oh yes, absolutely.
End of Interview. Approximately 43 minutes.